Earlier this week, I jotted down my expectations for the CBS-sponsored Vice-Presidential debate. I described J.D. Vance as arrogant, unprepared, and undisciplined. I described Governor Tim Walz as unflappable, noting that as a former high school teacher he could handle an unruly child.
Boy, was I wrong. The J.D. Vance who debated Walz last night was remarkably articulate and disciplined. He shook Walz’s hand and, after the debate, introduced his wife to Walz and his wife. He avoided name calling. Never once did he call Walz a communist or suggest that he quit his National Guard unit when it became clear it would be deployed overseas.
That is not to say that Vance was truthful in the debate or that he answered the moderators’ questions. Vance incredibly argued that Donald Trump saved Obamacare as president, failing to acknowledge that Trump campaigned to repeal it in 2016. He also tap-danced around a discussion of climate change, repeating Trump’s focus on jobs while effectively denying that carbon emissions are changing the environment.
On the issue of gun violence, Vance reiterated the Trump administration position that gun violence results from mentally disturbed people. He also suggested that illegal immigration contributed to the problem because violent migrants are importing guns. No evidence was offered in support of the claim.
Walz responded to some of Vance’s misstatements, but frequently spoke in generalities. He repeated some Harris campaign slogans, things like “an Opportunity Economy” and, with only a few exceptions, did not directly challenge Vance. He also responded to Vance on several issues by emphasizing agreement with him. In doing so, he legitimized much of the Trump agenda.
The low point of the debate for Vance was the discussion of the January 6, 2021, insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. The discussion came towards the end of the evening. Walz challenged Vance on Trump’s actions suggesting Trump is a threat to democracy. Vance responded by suggesting that “censorship” by the Democrats was the real threat. That claim rang hollow.
Vance also boldly offered that there was a peaceful transfer of power after Trump lost the election (which Vance refused to acknowledge). Trump left the White House voluntarily on January 20, 2021—that, according to Vance—was the peaceful transition of power.
Walz’ low point of the evening came at the hands of CBS moderator Margaret Brennan. Minnesota Public Radio and others have recently challenged Walz’s claim that he was in Hong Kong during the student revolt in Tiananmen Square in 1989. He wasn’t. Brennan asked Walz to explain the discrepancy. In response, Walz offered a convoluted history of his own upbringing and expressed pride in his trips to China before admitting that he was mistaken.
Vance did not have to add a word to the discussion. Walz had shot himself in the foot. The expression on his face during his response did as much damage as the response itself.
After watching the debate, I wrote down why I thought Vance had won.
Avoided name-calling. Never once did Vance mention communism or call Walz “dumb.”
Pronounced Kamala Harris’ name correctly.
Remarkably disciplined, rarely interrupting Walz.
Expressing agreement or at least a willingness to discuss policy on some issues.
Expressed sympathy for Walz after Walz mentioned his son had witnessed a shooting.
Avoided attacking Walz personally on his military service or claiming that he was a coach. (Walz was an assistant coach).
Carefully avoided repeating controversial Trump or Vance statements.
Avoided contradicting Trump policies.
Smoothly brushed off past statements, such as calling Trump “America’s Hitler.”
Shook Walz’s hand at the end of the debate.
Vance was too slippery for either Walz or the CBS moderators.
So, what impact will the debate have on the election going forward?
Nothing said in the debate is likely to materially change votes in November, but Vance succeeded in doing something that his running mate has been unable to do in recent months—sound sane and civil. Trump’s aides must have been ecstatic last night.
I had hoped that the debate would be the forum where voters could see what an unqualified and dangerous politician Vance is. That did not happen and is unfortunate.
The 2024 election remains close. Last night’s debate did nothing to change that.
J.E. Dean is a retired attorney and public affairs consultant. He writes on politics, government, and, too infrequently, other subjects.
Avery Thompson says
Make Lying Wrong Again
The American people deserve to have both candidates fact checked on the spot and called out for lying.
Shaking hands and introducing your wife don’t make you a winner.
John Dean says
Thanks for your comment. I agree with you that candidates should be fact-checked. Mr. Vance would have been fact-checked several times.
I did not see Vance as “winning” because he shook hands and introduced his wife to the Walzes. I commented on that because I did not expect Vance to be as civil as he was.
In any case, thank you for reading the piece.
Linda Cades says
Thank you Avery. I agree entirely. All the civility in the world does not make up for the endless lies Vance told last night and has continued telling throughout the campaign. The man admitted on national television that he was lying about Haitians in Springfield, Ohio but he has continued to do so. In the meantime, that community has been overwhelmed with bomb threats to schools, hospitals and government offices. Vance doesn’t care. He and Trump believe that pandering to bigotry is a winning strategy.
We read that CBS had hired 20!!!!! fact checkers to fact check in real time during the debate. However, to access their work, you had to use your phone to take a picture of a QR code and then there was some other procedure to get you to the actual fact checking. My husband is pretty tech savvy, but he was unable to do it. I suspect many other people would have had the same problem. Memo to CBS: Next time have the results of the fact checking appear on the screen right when one of the candidates lies. A simple “That’s a lie” printed on the screen in real time would alert the audience about dishonest statements. It might also cause candidates to prepare better and decide to stick to facts.
In the meantime, I hope that no one will decide to vote for Trump based on one debate.
Barbara Denton says
J.D. Vance was not lying about the Haitians. They are here on Temporary Parole Status. They are not here legally. Biden/Harris have allowed the applications on line for this status and they took in thousands of Haitians when the Country fell apart. They could and should deport them tomorrow but they will not. The people of Springfield get to suffer for their negligence, so do the animals. Now there are homeless American citizens in Springfield as they have been displaced by illegal aliens whose housing is paid for by the Federal Government. The CBS fact checking was not supposed to take place. It was wrong and J. D. Vance had every right to correct them. As in the Presidential debate it was 3 against one but again it did not work.
Avery Thompson says
Barbara just imagine if we have debates where if any side told a lie during the debate it would show on the tv screen LIE so you and I the American people know the truth from both sides.
The fact checking was not supposed to take place cause he wanted to Lie and not be checked! Note to self if they were telling the truth the anger would not show and they would not care fact check or no fact check.
Make Lying Wrong Again
Ron Ketter says
It’s unfortunate how performative debates have become and the criteria pundits create and use for declaring who “wins or loses” the debate. It seems like making up evidence (aka, telling a lie) should automatically disqualify being declared the winner. As a formal college debater, I knew that falsifying evidence would mean an automatic loss, and perhaps even being disqualified for participating in the tournament. Too bad pundits don’t have the courage to apply that to a contest that’s even more consequential than a college debate tournament.
John Dean says
Thank you for your comment. You are right that falsifying evidence should be an automatic disqualification in a debate. Unfortunately, presidential and vice presidential debates are not governed by the same rules that govern high school and other academic debates.
My analysis of the outcome of the debate was driven by which candidate would likely benefit from their performance. I concluded it was Vance. I consider Vance unqualified to serve as VP (and pretty much anything else).
John Dean says
Thanks for your comment. I agree that offering false evidence should disqualify a debater and result in a “loss.”
Unfortunately, the rules that govern high school and other academic debates do not apply to presidential and vice presidential debates.
My call on the debate was based on which candidate would likely benefit from their performance. Vance, despite his misstatements and inability to admit that Trump lost in 2020, exceeded my expectations and was more poised and articulate than Walz. I wanted Walz to “win,” but he didn’t. I hope he wins in November.
Art Cecil says
It’s “unfortunate” that Vance didn’t come across as “unqualified and dangerous” ?? That’s a very strange opinion from anyone who has the country’s best interests at heart.
Deirdre LaMotte says
Because Vance’s ideas are dangerous and authoritarian. He is full of calculated smarm and slippery rhetoric. That he refused to say Trump lost the election is the most damning thing about his performance tonight: because the peaceful transfer of power is what makes us a democracy.
No one in our history has broken that vital concept until Trump tried to.
He is unfit, period.
Wilson Dean says
Senator Vance did indeed put on the better show last night, being quite articulate although almost a bit too “slick.” Debating is clearly not the strength of Governor Walz, as his answers were often too long and not to the point. Moreover, he missed several prime opportunities to call Vance out on a number of the Senator’s misleading comments (such as on climate change).
It is disheartening that we have reached a point where none of these debates should be held without an on-the-spot Fact Checker. Vance had a nearly unbroken chain of misleading comments and blatant lies, as did President Trump in his debate with Vice President Harris. MAGA-types who solely watch Fox News and related platforms may be used to and even be comfortable with being lied to. Nevertheless, most of us trying to assess the candidates in a debate need reassurance that we are all dealing in facts, even as we expect each candidate to give their own interpretation of the relative importance of those facts. It was most revealing that Senator Vance complained about being fact-checked on Haitian immigrants not being illegal last night and then today President Trump backed out on the 60 Minutes interview when he was told he would be fact-checked. This should send up red flags to all voters the kind of candidates these two are.
John Dean says
Thanks for the comment. As you might guess, I agree.
Barbara Denton says
You are beating a dead horse with your Jan. 6, 2021 repetition. Trump asked for troops and Nancy Pelosi refused. She admitted it in the documentary her daughter released that it was her fault because she had refused the protection. FBI and other law enforcement plants directed the marchers to go into the Capital. Mike Pence did not do his job and then he lied about it.
You are always inferring that either Trump or Vance are lying. Please state what you think the lies are so you can be refuted. Quite frankly, the difference between the abilities of Vance and Walz is quite striking.
Did you ever think about what the summer of 2020 would have been like if Tim Walz had called out the National Guard the first night of rioting (May 25) over the drug induced death of George Floyd. He is responsible for 8 billion dollars of damage in all the cities who decided to destroy property in honor of a drug dealer and felon. I certainly do not want this man anywhere near the White House or any other building in DC. He should be ashamed.
John Dean says
May I recommend you read Jack Smith’s memorandum released yesterday? January 6, 2021 is not a dead horse.
If you would like examples of Trump’s lies, read the memo. If you need an example of Vance’s lies, watch the video of Ohio’s Republican Governor refuting Vance’s racist and cruel claim that Haitians eat pets in Springfield, Ohio.
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258148/gov.uscourts.dcd.258148.252.0.pdf
Reed Fawell 3 says
Barbara – I appears from their own language that your opponents have run out of rope, save only to hang themselves on the thoughtless accusation that half the nation spews nothing but lies.
Avery Thompson says
Barbara if it was a peaceful, civil, professional transition of power as completed from the past 46 that held that position, then why would number 47 ask for Troops ? What’s peaceful if you need Troops to protect.
As for the Lies told ? Well Barbara let’s just say if there is full Wikipedia page on him that covers them all post and pre presidency you might want to read for your self since you’re not aware of the lies.
One that stands out to many is when he lied about Covid. Or the porn star he paid off to shut up. Don’t forget the classic hurricane Dorian in 19 when he drew a black marker on the map of its path.
I hope you break free from the lies being told from the billionaire baby’s trying to take over.
When 46 presidents before 47 did it most folks question is it the person or the process?
May peace and clarity be with you as you vote.
Make Lying Wrong Again
William Keppen says
“Vance was too slipery ,,,” and “The 2024 election remains close. Last night’s debate did nothing to change that.” I concur and would add, Vance, like Trump, is prolific liar and we should not elect prolific liars to high office in this country.
Kurt Grunbach says
If Vance is too slippery what is Waltz? A Buffoon? So Waltz does not Lie! Bidden, Harris and Waltz, now there are your Liars and DO Nothing People. Another 4 years of Obama politics will surely ruin the country I Love and served in the USMC. I won’t discuss Waltz’s military service with Vance’s.
I would like to write more but I might confuse you with facts.
Deirdre LaMotte says
LOL. You are a disgrace to the USMC should you support a team that wants to abandoned the
Constitution. Did you not take that oath, or is that for only officers?
Trump is pathetic and an embarrassment to our armed forces.
John Dean says
Just one clarification. Kamala Harris’ running mate is Tim Walz, not Waltz, which is a form of dancing.
Gerry Levin says
Vance lied many times just like Trump. I certainly do not consider that a win.
John Dean says
Thank you for the comment. Many people agree with you.
Rebecca Ellison says
I agree … lies have consequences and need to be dealt with as they occur… not subjected to ‘afterwards’ discussion and ineffective hand-wringing.
While we figure that out, let’s also figure out how to be able to stop supplying arms to false friends who simply laugh at us as they put our (given for defensive uses only) weapons to use as the aggressors in terrorist attacks of their own, starting and perpetuating a REAL war on literally ALL of their neighbors, as we helplessly continue to ask (even plead with them) to play nice.
Christine Dolan says
On the gun issue, the FDA documents from 2004-2014 read that SSRIs’ risks include an increase in anger, violence, suicide and homicides. The public has been unaware of that as they are as clueless about the vascular and neurological risks of the covid-19 shots. It is all in the Pfizer documents that FDA and Pfizer wanted to keep under seal for 75 years. But for the judge in that FOIA case to get the Pfizer docs, those facts would not have been released. The NIH, NIAID, FDA and CDC have yet to even acknowledge those risks officially abeit sent a letter in May 2021 covid-19 vax injured – many health care providers – nurses, doctors, surgeons and dential hygientis, but have privately. NIH collected blood from some of those covid-19 shot injured since Jan 2021.
Most Americans do not even realize that an FDA black box warning for puberty blockers includes a risk of blindness, as reported by a woman in affidavit to the Missouri AG, who worked at trans sex clinic. Most Americans do not realize that the UK Cass investigation on trangenderism in the UK shut down trans operations for minors in the UK. Many European countries have shut them down for minors. Yet, the Biden Harris administration continues to push this ideology onto children. The medical illiteracy in this country is frightening, and the “Scavnger Midea” has failed to hold PHARMA and HHS accountable. We are the most medicated country in the West; 75% of Americans are on prescriptions. The US and New Zealand are the only countries on earth that allow PHARMA ads on TV. We need to take those ads off TV and the internet. Senator Ron Johnson is working on that on the Hill.
Tim Walz has repeatedly lied about being at Tiananmen Square on June 4, 1989. When asked about his past statements, the moderators during the VP debate gave Walz a pass that is unacceptable. His statement that he “mispoke…” was not good enough. He repeatedly lied. Even the Harris campaign has stated Walz did not go to China 30 times. He went about 15 times per Harris campaign. Walz built his professional, political and personal narratives around statements that he was in the Square on June 4, 1989 for a long time. During congressional hearings and on the anniversary of Tiananmen Square protest as a Congressman, he repeated those lies. It is all in congressional testimony going back years when he was on the Hill. He did not go to China until August 1989 after he graduated from college per his girlfriend at the time who visited him that Christmas. Even Walz’s wife, Gwen, has repeated his lies. She had not even met him after June 1989.
No moderator in any of the debates has even asked about the Corporate Transparency Act that affects 32 million small businesses in this country. Jobs Creators Network took a poll of business owners in US and only 2% of business owners even know about that Act. It goes into effect Jan 2025. If business owners screw up, they wont need an accountant to fix their dilemma, they will need a criminal attorney. The penalties are stiff – high fines and prison. It mirrors the UK Corporate Transparency Act which mirrors the WEF goals.
We actually have people in Maryland who host “Minor Attracted Persons” conferences. As an investigative journalist I attended one in spring 2019. I have written about that in my book, Shattered Innocence – A Shared Global Shame. I have investigated all human trafficking faces for nearly 25 years as an investigative journalist. Their goal is to decriminalize pedophilia via incentivizing therapists. That is FACT – no hyperpole. This is happening at the state level across this country and Americans are unaware of that.
We are in serious trouble when this country is on steroids nuking parental rights. There are cases in the US where children are removed from their parents, who do not go along with “gender affirming” ideology, and taken to other states where transgender operations are legal for minors. Under Walz’s tenure as governor, Minnesota is now a gender affirming sanctuary state.
The normalization of mutilating children should be unacceptable by any moral standards. Done without parental consent is morally unconscionable.
Women in Western Hemisphere worked hard to protect women overseas from female genital mutilation but now, in the US we target childre. If anyone speaks up – they are trashed, targeted and defamed. Since when is protecting children inappropriate. Our world is completely upside down.
We have a very politically illiterate population that does not even realize that under Biden Harris, HHS has drawn up amendments to put our national health care under the World Health Organization. That happened in 2022.
Ross Perot was absolutely correct in 1992 when he criticized K Street lobbyists and special interests groups.
It is a dangerously sick joke when Harris Walz Team highlights FREEDOM when they want to take away Americans’ First Amendment Rights. HRC and John Kerry have joined the bandwagon on that. HRC recently stated that we need to have civil fines or criminal prosecutions. Kerry at Davos recently stated that the First Amendment was an “impediment” to Davos’ goals.
Go figure! Kerry’s statement is beyond ironic considering Kerry’s 1970’s congressional testimony over Vietnam before he got into politics. In the world Kerry now embraces he would not be able to state what he said then about the Vietnam War.
If First Amendment rights are nuked – we lose the five pillars – freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, freedom of the press and the right to petition the government.
In other words – we will not be able to challenge those in power and hold government officials accountable.
In short, we may as well kiss the Magna Carta good bye, and I would bet that many of those 75-80 million Americans born after 1990 do not even know the significance of the Magna Carta or Thomas Paine’s Common Sense.
God help this country.
We have many people who lack historical knowledge, the significance of the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the knowledge of the significance of the Treaty of Westphalia and Magna Carta and the evolution of American history.
God Bless the Freedoms of this country!